Category: thyroid (Page 1 of 2)

Reducing antibodies

I believe, many thyroid patients are aware that one can do things to bring thyroid antibodies down. And that high levels of antibodies is not a good thing. You can read my post on antiodies and symptoms here. Many know that gluten is not good for us, and that selenium is good and that what we eat matters. In this post I will share with you, what science has shown really works. 

It’s important to be aware, that  people who have true Hashimotos have higher antibody levels than us with Atrophic Ord’s. Doctors call everything Hashimotos, but there are in reality many different autoimmune thyroiditis. The two most common are Hashimotos and Ord’s. Hashimotos starts with a goiter (one doesn’t need to be aware of it) and Ord’s not. In Hashimotos the gland stays large, only infiltrated by B and T lymphocytes. Whereas in Ord’s, the gland shrivels up over time.

Why do I talk about this? Because  all thyroid antibodies are produced inside the gland. By the said B lymphocytes. So as the gland atrophies in Ord’s, less and less antibodies are produced.  This means, we with Ord’s will have lower antibody levels. Often people don’t know what kind of AITD they have. But if you find it difficult to reduce your antibodies, you might have Hashimotos. Remember, we can only do our best. I have hardly any antibodies anymore, I have very little thyroid tissue left.

is absolutely necessary for hormone production. Both the TPO enzyme and the deiodinase enzymes are selenium enzymes. 

But selenium is also important for the antibody levels. I am not sure where exactely is a good selenium level. There are three Norwegian doctors who argue, that we need much higher selenium levels than what is currently advised (1). Upper reference is often 1.8 or 1.9 umol/L. These doctors argue, that upper reference should be at 3 umol /L. Toxic level is at 3.5 umol/L. I have read somewhere that high levels of Selenium can inhibit the conversion of T4 to T3, but I can’t find that study again. At least, you don’t need to worry about being a little over range. 

A safe dose is 200 mcg/day. As much as 400 mcg is considered safe. Some people eat brazil nuts for selenium. But you should be aware, that the selenium content can vary from very little to very much. I have a study on it under odds-and-ends

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Antibodies and symptom load

This is a post on the science on thyroid antibodies and symptoms. It was not until I had been thyroid sick for  7 years, that a doctor mentioned antibodies to me. That my high anti-TPO levels could affect my well being. This was in 2007. That is quite early for a doctor to be aware of this. Most doctors TODAY refuse to believe that antibodies can affect quality of life.  At least here in Denmark. Many doctors won’t even test for antibodies. The Danish endocrinologists  claim, antibodies are only important in terms of diagnosing. And they don’t even know, that some people with autoimmune thyroid disease (AITD) don’t have antibodies at all. You can read more about that here.  

I have no doubts, that antibodies affect us. Our immune system is not in balance. It’s my conviction, that a lot of fatigue is caused by imbalances in our immune systems. I also believe, our gut health plays into it, and some people have what’s called a leaky gut. I am not going into that in this post though. 

Everybody with AITD knows, we are not who we were. But it’s difficult to say what’s what. Is it all the years with mistreatment? All the years with too low FT3 even though we were on thyroid medication? Or can the antibodies also contribute to the fatigue we often feel? 

It’s usually after years of being sick that we start understanding our disease. At that point we learn about optimal thyroid levels, which you can read about here,  here.

And we get the right medication that will give us these levels. But we often still feel tired. It could be antibodies, though us with Ord’s atrophic have low antibody levels after our thyroid has shrunk. It is not my impression, we are feeling better than  the people with true Hashimotos, who often have high antibody levels even after years of disease. It could be, it’s our compromised immune system that is the problem. I know for myself, after I started with Low dose naltroxene (LDN) link, the fatigue improved immensely. And what LDN does, is regulate the T regulator cells. Which play a big role in our AITD. 

I will look at the science in this post.  To wake people up to the fact, that it’s important. Here in Denmark, people have enormously high antibody levels. I am talking 20/30 000 IU/L. And they are being told by their doctors, it does not matter. It does matter!

You can show your doctor some of these studies, if he or she doesn’t let you test for antibodies.  

I am very disappointed though, or I would have been were it not for the fact that I have reads heaps of studies on thyroid issues. The participants are very often low on their thyroid levels. And it is the same in most of these studies. So we can’t really say what’s what, hypothyroid or antibodies.

I almost didn’t bother writing this post after I had looked at the science. But even if we understand, the participants are hypo thyroid, your doctor won’t understand it. So to have a case for antibody testing, these studies work fine.

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Antibodies, part 3, TSHR abs, TRAb

Many believe, that TRAb is an antibody only people with Graves have.  Many also call them Graves’ antibodies. And that high levels of TRAb is the same as hyper thyroid.  This is not the case. As there are 3 types of TRAb, stimulating, blocking and cleavage. People with hypo thyroid can also have high levels of TRAb, So this antibody is of interest to all with thyroid disease.

Abstract

There are 3 kinds of TRAb or TSHR abs, stimulating, blocking and cleavage; previously called neutral.

Both hypothyroid and hyper thyroid can have high levels of TRAb.

Some Graves’ patients have both blocking and stimulating TRAb. They will fluctuate between hyper thyroid and hypo thyroid.  

One believed earlier, that the third kind of TRAb one had found, was neutral. But now one has realized, this third TRAb can actually cause cell death in the thyroid. That is, it kills thyrocytes.

People with atophic Ord’s (athropic AITD) have much higher levels of TRAb than people with Hashimotos. We mistakenly call both atropic AITD and  AIDT that starts with a goiter, for Hashimotos. But these are two different diseases. You may not have been aware that you had a goiter, but the gland has been somewhat enlarged in true Hashimotos. And the gland keeps it’s size throughout the disease. But in Ord’s, the gland fades away, atrophies. This might be due in part  to these cleavage TRAb s.

When the gland is gone or mostly gone, there will not be high TRAb levels anymore. As all thyroid antibodies are made in the gland.

There is also a section on iodine supplementation and Graves.

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Antibodies, part 2, Anti-thyroglobulin

Thyroid patients are very focused on anti-TPO, but anti-TG is also important. If we have high levels, it can mean, that there is some damage to our thyroid. And did you know that 10% of Hashimotos patients don’t even have anti-TPO, only anti-TG?

Abstact

Thyroglobulin is a large molecule. It’s involved in the manufacturing and storage of thyroid hormones. It’s supposed to stay primarily INSIDE the thyroid. But it’s normal to have tiny amounts floating around in the circulation. We can get anti bodies to the thyro-globulin when levels become high, anti-TG.  

Thyroglobulin can release into the circulation in various ways: 

When the thyroid is being destroyed.

When the thyroglobulin contains very little iodine.

When they suddenly contain much more iodine (when one has been iodine deficient and suddenly increase iodine intake by a lot). 

And lastly, in thyroid cancer, TG can get released in connection with the synthetization of hormone. 

One did think, that anti-TG was pretty harmless in terms of damage to the thyroid. But this is changing. It looks to be potentially more harmful than anti-TPO.  

It’s important to test  anti-TG when one suspects AITD, because some people have only elevated levels of anti-TG, and not anti-TPO. I don’t think many doctors are aware of that fact. 

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How is NDT made?

I have got to admit, I have been very ignorant about how NDT is made. I have believed that NDT and glandular supplements, like Metavive and Thyrogold, were virtually the same.  And I have been telling people that. They are not, glandular is a much weaker product. I could be embarrassed about this. But I choose not to.  This only proves my point, that there is so much to learn about this thyroid issue. Let’s try to stay openminded, and just admit when we are mistaken. That is the only way to learn something new.

I have this info from Chris at Pim Pom products, also the photos.  Most of it is a direct quote from him.  I have just added a little. Thanks, Chris!

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Quality of NDT

There is so much talk of issues with NDT. And I have already written one post about it. I hope to be a sobering voice. I see a lot of stress and worry created, especially in the US. We take it more easy here in Europe. 

Is there any need for worry? No, you don’t need to worry. Only people who do not know anything about their optimal levels, or how to monitor them, need to worry. You will learn how to do these things, if you don’t already know it. I will teach you.  Follow your temperature and pulse, guide below. Then you just adjust your dose as needed. 

Because thyroid meds will continue to fluctuate also in  the future. And not only NDT, synthetic meds differ in their hormone levels as well. There is just now, August 2021, a new study on Levothyroxine. Where the authors think the medicine is so inconsistent, it should be put to bed. You can read more about that  here.  

 

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For the thyroid newbie

Basic guide for you new to thyroid issues

I wanted to make the guide I wish I had had. Way back when, more than 20 years ago. Knowledge that could have saved me a lot of suffering. Maybe I would have been more healthy today. 

So it is my hope, this info will help you. Of course, there is so much info today, compared to earlier. But maybe there is too much info for someone new to this. I hope I can make it,if not easy, then at least possible to understand.  

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Reverse T3

Abstract

Reverse T3 is not the big bad wolf in our thyroid system. It is a necessary brake where FT3 is the gas pedal. We can get too much RT3 when we take more T4 medicine than we are able to convert to T3. Could be just too high dose, or that we don’t convert well. Other conditions can increase RT3 too much as well. It’s a good idea to test RT3 from time to time. But it is not necessary to test all the time. 

I will look at myths and misunderstandings around RT3. for one thing, RT3 does not block T3 by occupying T3 receptors. Nor does it hinder T4 to T3 conversion. If there is a big bad wolf, it’s deiodinase 3, D3. It’s D3 who converts T4 to RT3, and who hinders T3 from attaching to the T3 receptors i the cell nucleus. 

But there are no “wolves” in our thyroid system. Only participants with their own roles to play. And the better we understand the play, the more can we hopefully optimize our thyroid levels and feel better. 

I will look at what causes too high RT3, and what one can do bring it down. 

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Has NDT gone bad?

NO, NDT hasn’t gone bad. That is the short answer. I take NDT myself, and it works just fine.

I see people claiming, NDT is no good anymore. That it is better to take synthetic T4/T3 now. I think this is very serious, that this incorrect, untrue info is being spread in the Facebook groups. It stems from STTM, Stop the Thyroid Madness, and its Facebook group, Adrenal Fatigue and Thyroid Care. STTM is a site that has contributed so much, and I am sad to see, there is such black and white thinking going on. This issue isn’t black and white.

I wrote to the woman behind STTM about this, Janie A. Bowthrope. I told her, we are lots of people who do great on NDT here in Scandinavia. She said, most of those who still “believe”  they are ok on NDT, only experiences adrenalin! I find that to be a strange claim. What does it mean? Adrenalin? We don’t have good thyroid levels? We just think we do? A female admin in the Facebook group, told me in a comment, we here in Scandinavia probably took our meds right before labs! None of us know how to do our labs? I am a member of thyroid groups  in many countries. The members in the Norwegian groups are among the better informed in the world, as far as I am concerned. I am aware that many thyroid patients don’t know how to do labs correctly. Norwegians on NDT are not among those.

It’s a little difficult to take this seriously. Yes, absolutly, there were some bad batches of Nature Troid in 18. It didn’t take long before there were good batches again. STTM claims, that NP Acella is bad now. We don’t have NP here in Scandinavia, I don’t know if they have it in other European countries. But I see lots of people saying it is fine for them in the US groups. We use a lot of Armour, Erfa and nature Throid over here. Just now, May 2020, I see people here in Scandinavia saying, there is something wrong with Erfa. With the smelly product Erfa themselves have made a statement about it. Erfa says, they contain the proper amount of hormone. But some experience it differently.  

Update: I wrote this last year. I have just checked back with people on NP now in August 2021. They are doing fine on it still. Despite STTM claiming, it does not work at all. So maybe it works for some, and not for others. Keep in mind as well, we fluctuate a lot in our levels. We use a lot of Armour, Erfa and Na

I am not saying, there are no issues. But to say, all NDT has gone bad, and to accuse the producers of being callous and indifferent to us patients and only out to make money, as Janie Bowthrope does here, https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/2019/09/23/the-sad-saga-of-where-we-are-today-as-hypothyroid-patients/  That is a sad saga.

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Synthetic T4 to NDT conversion

How do I convert my T4 dose to NDT?

This is a question one sees often in the thyroid Facebook groups. There is a lot of confusion and insecurity around this. Which is not so strange, as there is very little good info on the topic. Here are my recommendations

The conversion tables the NDT (thyroid) producers themselves provide are ridiculously low. They are wrong, wrong, wrong. I don’t understand how they think at all. If they do. Think. One would be seriously under dosed if adhering to those guidelines. And if one’s doctor reads them, one could get serious problems. I don’t know how many doctors read these instructions. I hope they don’t. Here is a table from Nature Troid as a (bad) example.  

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